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Post by brandon on Nov 22, 2008 2:17:42 GMT -8
i also view religion as a crutch. i dont think people need a book written by primitive man telling them how to be a good person. see, i dont get that argument. arent religious people always sacrificing the "fun" things in life to get a reward later? how is that a crutch? anyhow, i think everyone has a crutch, and sometimes thats ok... we all need something to lean on sometimes.
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Post by thexfischx on Nov 22, 2008 2:38:44 GMT -8
i also view religion as a crutch. i dont think people need a book written by primitive man telling them how to be a good person. see, i dont get that argument. arent religious people always sacrificing the "fun" things in life to get a reward later? how is that a crutch? anyhow, i think everyone has a crutch, and sometimes thats ok... we all need something to lean on sometimes. because religious people will drop to their knees and pray to their "god" to help their problems.
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Post by danny on Nov 22, 2008 3:30:48 GMT -8
that may be true, and false. religion has it's truths, and it's flaws (and just because christianity is most relevant religion here, in oregon, in no way means that it's the only one this is true for.) Yes people use religion as a crutch. a crutch to go to war, a crutch to do something bad and feel better about it, a crutch to discriminate against those who are less fortunate, but all of these, mostly, are pretty contradicting to the religion itself. any religion, mostly, doesn't stray too far from one another of what an accurate idea of what right and wrong is. so in that way, there is obviously at least some truth to religion, it's just i feel that certain people may be too fixed on the face of the religion, and overseeing the idea that there must be a bigger picture: god is infinite, and this entire world is mere creation. we, as humans, are material items, and a lot of people want something equally as material to believe in. something friendly to our 5 senses. but in the same way, being "god free" is just as ignorant, being straight edge is just as ignorant. the fact is we're all here, and we're all the same no matter how different we think we are. love one another. stupid close minded crews, or followings won't make that better. they won't reveal any other light in this life. as for straight edge exclusively, take a look at Sam Wartenbee. He's straight edge, he knows the poison in which it can contain if taken out of it's context. a beer can be a nice refreshment, not just something to drown away feelings. I think even he understands that. I've never seen him discriminate against those that have made different choices, even when playing in a band with them. Point is, anything can be a crutch if taken out of it's context. eating, drinking, watching t.v., playing video games, because all of which will mislead you from what a wholesome life would entail. not all people in oregon that are edge are into the crew aspect of it, just the ones that make it known that they're edge.
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Post by Shayne the Kid on Nov 22, 2008 5:40:03 GMT -8
a beer can be a nice refreshment, not just something to drown away feelings. I think even he understands that. Agreed. I don't understand why drinking a beer is poisoning your body. Not everyone that has a beer is using it as a "crutch" to cope with your promblems. That is such a narrow-minded view of alcohol consumption. Every day at lunch I sip on a beer, I try and get a different one every day to try new ones. Does this mean I am trying to cope with my feelings and "drown myself in my sorrows"? No, I just like to try and taste different beers along with my lunch.
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Post by Jil on Nov 22, 2008 8:36:49 GMT -8
I just drink it because it tastes good. Much like orange juice. It has nothing to do with a crutch, it has nothing to do with forgetting my problems. Nothing can make me forget my problems, and I really don't care. That makes me stronger. I know what's up. As for religion. Fuck. I don't even like talking about it. I don't believe in the bible, I don't believe in the church. I don't believe in prayer. I believe that there must be a god out there, but what he's doing out there and what he's done... are no concern of mine.
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Post by Shayne the Kid on Nov 22, 2008 8:55:36 GMT -8
The bible may not be real, in a sense of miracles actually happening and "Jesus" walking the earth. What I do know is that the bible is a template for living a good life. Whether you are christian or not or believe if the events are real, what is real is the message. Most people who say they don't believe in the bible, haven't actually read it. Every day we uphold values and lessons that are tought in the bible, things that make you a stronger person. I personally dont believe in the events that happened and it doesn't really matter, I do believe in its message though. For the record, I am not a christian.
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Post by Sean Sultan on Nov 22, 2008 11:39:39 GMT -8
+1 for danny
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Post by milofultz on Nov 22, 2008 11:56:22 GMT -8
Bible is a guideline. It's just a good set of principles in my eyes (minus the god part). Lots of good morals. And yeah, agreed with the drinking thing. I overshot myself a little. I just couldn't start doing anything because I'm one of those "give me an inch take it a mile" guys, you know? Plus addictions been in my family too long for me to even come close.
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Post by Sean Sultan on Nov 22, 2008 12:04:52 GMT -8
Fisch, I'm a little hurt. As a Christian and a scientist it's hard to swallow what you are saying about my beliefs. The truth is that a lot of people have taken religion and made it into something that it's not, and that's sad, but there are still TONS of people who see this and want to correct this. Those people will never be main stream but they will live a full and godly life. It's true that religion can be like a crutch (for some people. you guys are generalizing a lot...don't it's just too easy to make an ass of your self) but in the same sense that a counselor or a psychiatrist or even a friend with a warm shoulder is. It helps you deal with the shit in life, and it doesn't make it just go away you have to actually DEAL with it. Religion just makes dealing with it that much easier and really, on a bad day doesn't every little bit help? A lot of historians believe that suicide rates in Russia during Soviet control went up because anyone who believed in religion was sent to a mental institution. Those people had a LOOOOOT of shit to deal with and they maybe could have been able to it with they're "crutch". Religion, though isn't just a "crutch". It's a philosophy, It's a way to live your life and I think that most strait edge people should read it because I think that they would see that they already believe and practice a lot of the philosophies in it and maybe they would come a way from it better people. It sounds like reading about the Pharisee's would eliminate a lot of the douchbagery that you guys defined in the earlier part of this thread.
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Post by Sean Sultan on Nov 22, 2008 12:09:10 GMT -8
The bible may not be real, in a sense of miracles actually happening and "Jesus" walking the earth. What I do know is that the bible is a template for living a good life. Whether you are christian or not or believe if the events are real, what is real is the message. Most people who say they don't believe in the bible, haven't actually read it. Every day we uphold values and lessons that are tought in the bible, things that make you a stronger person. I personally dont believe in the events that happened and it doesn't really matter, I do believe in its message though. For the record, I am not a christian. I think we established pretty well that Jil has likely already read the Bible. Read Nov. 27th-29th.
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Post by Take92 on Nov 22, 2008 13:44:44 GMT -8
I get the crutch thing, but we all have our distractions. As long as it isn't destructive, I'm all for it. For example, I'm edge. But I have to be making records or I crash pretty hard. If I'm not making music, I have to keep busy with movies or comic books or something. I understand the need for this, but I can't get behind people that take this beyond a distraction and into something that affects the people around them.
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Post by brandon on Nov 22, 2008 15:34:08 GMT -8
+47 to a healthy moralities discussion! Bible is a guideline. It's just a good set of principles in my eyes (minus the god part). Lots of good morals. And yeah, agreed with the drinking thing. I overshot myself a little. I just couldn't start doing anything because I'm one of those "give me an inch take it a mile" guys, you know? Plus addictions been in my family too long for me to even come close. yeah thats where i'm at too. i take miles when given inches....
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Post by thexfischx on Nov 22, 2008 15:38:46 GMT -8
no and i agree that religion and alcohol arent always used as a crutch.
but personally i feel people dont need a book to tell them how to be a good person. people should know right and wrong. but if people want to believe in a god, more power to them. im just not a fan of organized religion.
i dont want to hurt or offend anybody. these are just my views on life and everything.
im not a close minded fuck if you wanna drink a beer, thats rad. go for it! lots of my friends drink, or smoke. i actually dont have many edge friends up here haha
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Post by Jil on Nov 22, 2008 16:18:24 GMT -8
Oh. You don't offend me. You suck too bad to do that. ... ... ...
Annnd yes. It's true. I was raised Christian. It's by choice that I am no longer. And yes. I have read some of the bible.
Has anyone ever read the book of the Flying Spaghetti Monster??? Very interesting!
And sure, what is said in the bible could have been said in good heart or whatever. But the point is... that's all it is. I mean, to me anyways. Maybe it's other things to other people.
Would you like me to convince you that God is actually Lucifer and what you refer to as Satan is actually God?? I can do it!
Man I'm hungry.
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Post by bearcub on Nov 22, 2008 21:30:24 GMT -8
this has always been a big topic of discussion from whenever i first heard about edge. To be honest people that beat up other people because they arent like them is just as bad as not letting people get married because its not "gods will" or what have you. Without regurgitating what everyone has already said, I believe beating somebody up or putting down or looking down on someone because they are different in any shape or form is fucked. Even I, who dont like the people who get fuck tons of money just for themselves and not help out others, who am I to tell them how to live. It's not about convincing somebody to think like you, I believe it's about accepting people for who they are and working with their views. History has shown, and even in the present, that we can't fully coexist. Shit, we have two different parties to vote between when we have elections. If your open minded, you won't have a grudge against anybody.
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