kyle253
Newbie
Vida y Muerte
Posts: 12
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Post by kyle253 on Nov 23, 2008 3:26:09 GMT -8
Sraight Edge: First off before I get into this, Brandon.. don't claim edge. You don't know a thing about edge, don't claim something you don't know anything about.
Now, as a friend of Fisch (yes I am a friend of Fisch, and the other rude posts were jokes) I respect his beliefs and choices, just as he respects my beliefs and choices. I love the guy, he's an awesome dude and he has my full respect. BUT as much as I love the guy and respect him I just don't believe edge has it's true meaning anymore. Mainly because of those "douche bags" you guys were talking about. They have basically ruined what it once was, and turned it into a crew. I could say it over and over again I have full respect for those that choose to live there life clean but the things I've read about and seen on TV about a lot of "straight edge" kids kind of pisses me off. Like straight edge guys kicking the shit out of people who drink or smoke, just because they were doing it around them. It's stupid, unless your going to be wearing a sign around your neck everyday saying "Hey I'm straight edge, don't drink or smoke around me" then I don't think they should be kicking anyone's ass. Fisch and I were watching Gangland on FSU, I liked those guys to tell you the truth, tell I heard that they kicked peoples asses just for being a drinker or a smoker. That just ruined things for me. I used to drink, a lot and had a few close calls with alcohol poisoning and now choose not to drink because I can't control how much I drink. My choice not to drink, I think if someone wants to have a few drinks or smoke, let them that's their choice in life just as it's your choice to be drug free and clean. Now that I have gotten my two cents out on straight edge I'll move on to religion.
Religion: I believe in God, Jesus, and the holy spirit. I don't read the Bible and I don't go to Church, I don't feel I need to do those things to believe in what I believe in. Same with my beliefs on straight edge it's someones choice in life to be a Christan, Buddhist, Satanist, Jewish etc etc. So just a little respect for those who have their choices in life just as you would be great.
Oh and Fisch.. you forgot your phone charger here at the apartment. You need to come get that, and hang out. haha <3
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Post by chris on Nov 23, 2008 4:18:52 GMT -8
Sraight Edge: First off before I get into this, Brandon.. don't claim edge. You don't know a thing about edge, don't claim something you don't know anything about. ...... Religion: I believe in God, Jesus, and the holy spirit. I don't read the Bible and I don't go to Church, I don't feel I need to do those things to believe in what I believe in. Same with my beliefs on straight edge it's someones choice in life to be a Christan, Buddhist, Satanist, Jewish etc etc. So just a little respect for those who have their choices in life just as you would be great. So there's no set rulebook for being a good "Christian," or a good person in general, but there's a rulebook for being "edge?" Who gives a fuck what Brandon claims as edge. As far as I can tell, he doesn't know much about it, all he said was that he was "sorta edge." And that was just implying that he doesn't drink, and he doesn't inhale. That's his interpretation of what "sorta" edge is, just as you have your interpretation of what being a "Christian" (or a good person) is. Completely excluding someone for something that should be as open-minded as being straight edge is just like a traditional Christian telling you you're a bad Christian because you don't read the Bible and don't go to church on Sundays. It's hypocritical, and I think the "edge" community could use a lot more open-minded people like Brandon, personally. Let's all just try and coexist a little more. Just as you or I don't want to be criticized for our religious beliefs (or lack thereof, depending on who you talk to), a person that claims "edge," or any lifestyle for that matter, should not be made to feel stupid about their choice or how they want to live their life.
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kyle253
Newbie
Vida y Muerte
Posts: 12
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Post by kyle253 on Nov 23, 2008 4:41:27 GMT -8
No drinking, No doing drugs, and no Promiscuous Sex. Those are the rules and reasons why people are straight edge. If he's going to claim Straight Edge and follow what Straight Edge is about I do think he should follow the rules of being Straight Edge. Claiming it and then going out and smokeing, inhaling or not it's still SMOKING. Which is going against what you supposadly believe in. So in reality he shouldn't be claiming it. There is no point in claiming something if you're not going to follow through with it. Those are the guys that get there asses kicked by the guys who truley believe in what they do. Because it comes back on all the Straight Edge people and makes them look bad.
Oh and if you have read the Bible(which I have, I just choose not to read it all the time) it says to believe in follow and love god. Nowhere does it say, Go to the house of God, read my Bible everyday. God didn't write the Bible, God didn't build the Church. Those were all done by his believers and his children to have a place of meeting to worship and love him, and the book was written for others to read and believe in him!
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Post by Jil on Nov 23, 2008 8:21:50 GMT -8
+1 for the religion thing Kyle.
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Post by milofultz on Nov 23, 2008 10:09:11 GMT -8
This is troll thread reincarnate.
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Post by danny on Nov 23, 2008 11:28:54 GMT -8
the thing about that straight edge is it's man made, so another man claiming to be half edge is just as fair game as the original ideal. either way, it does go against some strict rules of edge, but i hardly think anyone deserves an ass beating over any of it. whoopty fuckin doo. you don't drink. guess what? i don't fight, for the same reasons. it's obviously not healthy for us physically, and i can't think of one way a fight can be healthy emotionally. all it's doing is indulging in a less than mature way of handling an issue, forcing your ideals on others, and building pride, and fear amongst others. it's actually kind of funny, a lot of edge extremists end up not liking religion either, because they don't like religion being forced upon them. they've taken a lot of good ideas (respect, unity, endurance, etc) and made them completely one sided. the hypocrisy is pretty intense. also, regarding religion, and following the bible: i agree to a certain point, but the people that claim the idea of being christain and but don't believe in the bible are mistaken. this is where i have a hard time calling myself a christain. i believe the bible to have great significance, and ideals in it if read as a series of moral lessons. a book written in analogy, just as most other mythological stories are written. but on the other hand, the people that believe in it that way, sometimes don't believe christ is exactly what he said he was, but prefer only his moral teachings, which leaves us with one flaw, best spoken by c.s. lewis: "…Among the…Jews there suddenly turns up a man who goes about talking as if He was God. He claims to forgive sins. He says He has always existed. He says He is coming to judge the world at the end of time. Now let us get this clear. Among Pantheists, like the Indians, anyone might say that he was a part of God, or one with God: there would be nothing very odd about it. But this man, since He was a Jew, could not mean that kind of God. God, in their language, meant the Being outside the world Who had made it and was infinitely different from anything else. And when you have grasped that, you will see that what this man said was, quite simply, the most shocking thing that has ever been uttered by human lips.
I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice.”
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Post by Sean Sultan on Nov 23, 2008 11:31:00 GMT -8
Sraight Edge: First off before I get into this, Brandon.. don't claim edge. You don't know a thing about edge, don't claim something you don't know anything about. ...... Religion: I believe in God, Jesus, and the holy spirit. I don't read the Bible and I don't go to Church, I don't feel I need to do those things to believe in what I believe in. Same with my beliefs on straight edge it's someones choice in life to be a Christan, Buddhist, Satanist, Jewish etc etc. So just a little respect for those who have their choices in life just as you would be great. So there's no set rulebook for being a good "Christian," or a good person in general, but there's a rulebook for being "edge?" Who gives a fuck what Brandon claims as edge. As far as I can tell, he doesn't know much about it, all he said was that he was "sorta edge." And that was just implying that he doesn't drink, and he doesn't inhale. That's his interpretation of what "sorta" edge is, just as you have your interpretation of what being a "Christian" (or a good person) is. Completely excluding someone for something that should be as open-minded as being straight edge is just like a traditional Christian telling you you're a bad Christian because you don't read the Bible and don't go to church on Sundays. It's hypocritical, and I think the "edge" community could use a lot more open-minded people like Brandon, personally. Let's all just try and coexist a little more. Just as you or I don't want to be criticized for our religious beliefs (or lack thereof, depending on who you talk to), a person that claims "edge," or any lifestyle for that matter, should not be made to feel stupid about their choice or how they want to live their life. I think that everyone should read the wiki page on this, it's pretty thorough: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edgeI don't think kyle was putting Brandon down, Brandon just isn't edge, but that's not what made me want to comment. Your argument has so many fallacies it's ridiculous. First (and I'm not really edge) Edge people care. I think that edge people made it pretty clear that they are willing to fuck you up if you aren't who they want you to be (and I'm not referring to you guys, as a rule Oregonians and other NW kids are pretty tolerant.). Second, Christianity isn't up for interpretation. It's an umbrella genre. Basically if you believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, if you believe that Jesus came to earth to die for our sins and rose from the gave and that all who live in him are saved than you are a Christian. All the denominations (so like Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Episcopalian) come from different interpretations of the bible and their pretty inflexible in their beliefs. Third; edge started out open minded. That's old school edge, but after the 90's edge became REALLY close minded. That's when the violence started. It's become a little better, but people still struggle with it and I think you see that in your douche bags. But you can't really compare it to religion. I hate denominations because they're so hypocritical when it comes to judgment but the fact is that they will tell you you are a bad Christian for all those things(of course, kyle had to 'ave read the bible at so point to be where he is now). I agree that the edge community could use more Brandon's, but that's just because he's open minded. Last fallacy. The traditional edge mind set would say to you "I'll coexist when you go fuck yourself". I don't want to seem like I'm putting anybody down or judging anyone or anything because that's not what I'm trying to do, all I'm saying is that if you want an argument to be convincing...you better have your facts strait.
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Post by brandon on Nov 23, 2008 21:50:10 GMT -8
i know plenty about edge. i know that sometimes it involves vegetarianism, sometimes it involves religion, sometimes it is completely anti-religion. often times it leaves out the permiscuous sex altogether. dont tell me i dont know about straight edge. ive been edge long enough to know that nothing is black and white.
from that wikipedia page "[straight edge] Adherents' main objective is to not "poison" the body in any way."
thats what im talkin about.
again, and i can't stress this point enough, i said "sorta". gimme a break bud.
kyle, straight edge and religion have a lot more in common than youre giving credit for. theyre both guidelines for living. it seems like youre being very hypocritical about bending rules about christianity but not straight edge. it just seems like you are picking and choosing.
about the bible... you say that to be a christian you have to follow God and love him? where do you get that? from the bible, right? how do you know how to follow him? from the bible right? are you learning how to follow him? you do that by going to church and reading the bible. these things are not commandments, theyre some things to help you love and follow God.
just a thought.
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Post by Sean Sultan on Nov 23, 2008 22:58:02 GMT -8
this is just semantics but I never said you weren't sorta edge and by admitting to be only sorta edge you yourself admit to not being edge. You know what I mean? Also, my last statement was directed at chris and not you, and I only wrote it because he wasn't very convincing. I don't know if he knows his arguments or not.
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kyle253
Newbie
Vida y Muerte
Posts: 12
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Post by kyle253 on Nov 24, 2008 0:13:18 GMT -8
about the bible... you say that to be a christian you have to follow God and love him? where do you get that? from the bible, right? how do you know how to follow him? from the bible right? are you learning how to follow him? you do that by going to church and reading the bible. these things are not commandments, theyre some things to help you love and follow God. just a thought. Dude, seriously? Yeah, they are there for you to choose to read or go to. But you don't NEED them to be a Christan. As long as you know that you love God and will follow him and his way, that is what makes you a Christan. Not a book, and not a place where people beg for you money. It's just like Straight Edge, you don't need tattoos, clothing or to be flaunting it to the world. What matters is that you know who you are, being that there is no "leader" in being Straight Edge you yourself become your leader. Stick to what you believe. Just like I said in the beginning, I don't think you need to claim Straight Edge to be clean. Same goes with Christianity, you don't need to flaunt it around to people to know who YOU are. That's all I have to say. If you want to claim Straight Edge go for it, it's your life.
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Post by Take92 on Nov 24, 2008 0:33:35 GMT -8
Wow. This is why people hate straight-edge. It's a personal choice, not the fuckin' Ten Commandments. It's open to interpretation. Leave it at that.
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joshy
Amateur
keeping with the trend of sweet moustache pics...
Posts: 63
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Post by joshy on Nov 24, 2008 2:38:24 GMT -8
first of all, i apologize if i am contributing in any way to beating a dead horse, but i had an interesting thought.
bear with me at first, this will loop around to hopefully be relevant.
my personal belief spiritually is to strive to have faith a christ like faith, one that is fully trusting in the larger being i call god. this can be labeled as christian, but that term recently seems perverted. so forgive me when i say i dont prefer being referred to as such, because of the bad taste it leaves in many peoples mouths. but then again, when jesus was alive he didnt make many people happy either.
now when i see people who claim to have christian faith while theyre actions point otherwise, i admit i can be guilty of rolling my eyes or shaking my head. not so much a result of my disapproval, but more because its adding to the grief i may receive when sharing what i believe.
whether we like it or not people will always judge one another according to their choices. its something thats simply human.
i also agree with the idea of edge being religious in itself. im referring to the dictionary definition of religion:
"the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices"
edge IS religious.
and people will look at the people associated and form conclusions, however stereotypical they may be. I dont appreciate people referring to me as "following an idea with a group of other mindless zombies, striving for something that in reality they could never actually know for sure". then again, im doing something they dont approve of.
maybe having real faith in an idea or set of ideals is questioning and allowing yourself to understand why you believe what you believe. furthermore, understanding that other people are questioning and exploring, and respecting the fact that theyre not being that mindless zombie. whether its applied to spirituality, morals, edge, vegan, homosexuality, christianity, or just your understanding of existence.
we all need a sense of fulfillment brought about in just believing is something.
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Post by thexfischx on Nov 24, 2008 3:55:42 GMT -8
Edge is up to interpretation, but you need to follow the base rules; no drinking, no smoking, no drugs, and no promiscuous sex. Now people can take it as far as not taking pills. Not drinking caffeine. Even not having recreational sex. I personally do not take prescription pills.
But, because I make the best conversations, who has seen Zeigeist? I would suggest everybody watch this film. It touches on some religious things, 9/11 truth(which I am a very strong supporter of) and the federal reserve.
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Post by Shayne the Kid on Nov 24, 2008 5:10:28 GMT -8
That movie is very interesting of coarse and brings up a lot of controversy, but I would like to see cited sources. It's sort of like Wikipedia, it seems so real so it must be, but who knows if it's all just a story like any other movie.
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Post by danny on Nov 24, 2008 9:41:08 GMT -8
first of all, i apologize if i am contributing in any way to beating a dead horse, but i had an interesting thought. bear with me at first, this will loop around to hopefully be relevant. my personal belief spiritually is to strive to have faith a christ like faith, one that is fully trusting in the larger being i call god. this can be labeled as christian, but that term recently seems perverted. so forgive me when i say i dont prefer being referred to as such, because of the bad taste it leaves in many peoples mouths. but then again, when jesus was alive he didnt make many people happy either. now when i see people who claim to have christian faith while theyre actions point otherwise, i admit i can be guilty of rolling my eyes or shaking my head. not so much a result of my disapproval, but more because its adding to the grief i may receive when sharing what i believe. whether we like it or not people will always judge one another according to their choices. its something thats simply human. i also agree with the idea of edge being religious in itself. im referring to the dictionary definition of religion: "the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices" edge IS religious. and people will look at the people associated and form conclusions, however stereotypical they may be. I dont appreciate people referring to me as "following an idea with a group of other mindless zombies, striving for something that in reality they could never actually know for sure". then again, im doing something they dont approve of. maybe having real faith in an idea or set of ideals is questioning and allowing yourself to understand why you believe what you believe. furthermore, understanding that other people are questioning and exploring, and respecting the fact that theyre not being that mindless zombie. whether its applied to spirituality, morals, edge, vegan, homosexuality, christianity, or just your understanding of existence. we all need a sense of fulfillment brought about in just believing is something. well said, my friend.
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